If they are travellers why do they need permanent sites to stay?

Travellers want a permanent site? So they can't be called travellers can they?

The site is permanent. The people staying on it are not. It seems the above commenters are allowing their racist attitude to cloud their grasp of basic English.

Racism has nothing to with it.

If these people were being judged because one or two of them gave the rest of them a bad name, that would be racism.
Unfortunatly with Travellers, the bad are the many with the good being the exceptional few.

If they are travellers they can not work legitimatly, no NI number, no permanent address, no bank account......NO JOB! Ask anyone sleeping rough on the seafront if they can get work.

So if they have to pay rent to get a pitch at this new site, where will the money come from???????

All I can say, is if this goes ahead, its time to invest in some good security equiplment and beef up the locks on your doors and windows!

Tax tax tax tax tax

All some people seem to care about is their small change tax. I work full time same as the majority but I couldn't care less about some poxy gypsy camp being built with public funds.

If you are that bothered why don't you kick off about the billions wasted in the NHS and on new airfcraft carriers we obviously don't need.

Some people on here are seriously dim as exemplified by their racist slants.

Why don't they site it at Falmer?

With the credit crunch biting there may be vacant land there.

It will give Stormin' Norman and Lewes D C a new lease of life.

Well as long as it's brighton they keep them in then thats ok, all you lot of racists should be ashamed of yourselves.
What if it were the SAFHS "somalian association for housing somalians "WOULD YOU ALL PUT YOUR RACIST RANTS ON HERE???
Well as i said as long as they keep them in brighton and not portslade i don't see any problem.

Racism has nothing to with it.

Unfortunatly with Travellers, the bad are the many with the good being the exceptional few.

Let's try that with a little substitution, shall we?
Unfortunately, with black people, the bad are the many and the good the exceptional few.

Or would you prefer:
Unfortunately, with women, the bad are the many and the good the exceptional few.

Or maybe you've met every single member of the travelling community in order to find out if the large majority are bad?

I have had many experiences of meeting travellers and can safely say none of them have been good experiences.

Perhaps after you have had to wipe the travellers excrement from your car window that was put there by a 6-8 year old girl under the guidance of her Mother, your opinion may change
Perhaps when its your business that has been robbed, or your half finished drive that you were dumb enough to pay for in full before it was finished, or maybe when you have been lamped by a group of traveller lads in a pub somewhere.......mayb
e then you will understand why so many people do not want travellers anywhere near them.
And lets not get into the firearms that are so readily available in a travellers campsite!!!

Phew! I've come over quite faint!

These people are not lovingly tending their horses and selling heather. They are fly-tipping, ripping off the vulnerable and leaving a filthy mess whereever they go. It's cleared up at my (and your) expense - £850,000 as the council acknowledge. Why aren't they prosecuted for littering?

According to figures obtained under the Freedom of Information Act, £850,000 has been spent in the past three years on removing rubbish from illegal encampments and cleaning Horsdean

Think this sets out why people feel the way they do. If they want people to not object then clean up your own **** and people will think better of you.

Will Chris Whitwell please define a traveller and a gypsy in clear terms before whinging on about racism? How are these people assessed to see if they conform to these supposed racial criteria? Do/will they have to show birth certificates and id to gain access to these sites? If not, why not? Otherwise, they could clearly be masquerading and exploiting another race, based on Chris's theory.

Chris - we await your comments with interest! So enlighten us ... and also explain why they are such filty slobs that it costs £850k to clear up after them, when they enjoy daily rubbish collections anyway.

Credit due to the Police for their recent actions in clearing loads of travellers out of the Marina area, and credit due to the council for sending round leaflets warning people not to deal with 'Rogue Traders' (they have to be carefull about calling them Travellers for some reason)

Take it from me (who has been daft enough to use their services in the past) NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER ever give work to Travellers. Its the kiss of death in every way possible.

So does this mean that the one place kids can ride their motor bikes without being hassled is now going to be turned over to some dirty tax dodging scroungers?
Where are the kids supposed to go now to ride?

the link below will define a traveller for those interested

http://www.brighton-
hove.gov.uk/index.cf
m?request=c1001092

Also i would like to point out that the council is obliged under government legislation to provide traveller sites... It is important to realise and accept that people in minority groups should be provided for in society - if people cant accept this then they are being racist towards individual groups of people!

Yes "A", its easy for you to say we should provide for them,because you know darm well theres not a traveller within a hundred miles who would want a site in Whitehawk.

permanent site then must equal council tax. this will encourage an anti social sector in to this city. we have enough with the druggies and homeless, no wonder there is no council tax left to improve the city. take a trip in to town and its scum city.

idiots always going on about race, its nothing to do with race its their lack of law abiding behaviour.

there are enough sites for gypsies already, every non permit holders road in brighton is blighted by traveller vans, and the parks seafront etc. travellers should travel or buy a house like the rest of us have to. I am sure many young people born in this city would love a site they could live. huh bleeding political correct rubbish again. how much is this council wasting on sorting out every single minority groups whims.

Shame you didn't spell it out, A, whitehawk. As you'll know from that link to the Council's website, only Romany Travellers and Irish Travellers are recognised in law as ethnic groups. So has anyone done a census to register these people in Sussex/Brighton, and do they know how many there are? No - as the Council's website makes clear, there aren't even any national figures!! Anyone can pitch up and call themselves a traveller at present. It's time that the Council's department responsible for travellers stopped pandering to these people and came up with some answers for a change, rather than throwing our money around. Travellers choose to live outside society, rather than contributing to it, so why should we waste money pandering to them? Think how many things could have been done in the community with the £850k spent on clearing up after them. Enough is enough. If people want to use sites, they should show their entitlement, in the same way as benefit claimants, and equally, they should immediately be ejected if they set up camp elsewhere. Ireland of course doesn't allow them to trespass as we do over here.

The best post on here Shamen.Spot on,it could'nt be put better.

Whenever travellers visited the Patcham area problems arose ranging from cowboy jobs at outrageous prices, shop lifting,hedges being chopped down to provide material for their fires and vegetables and equipment missing from local allotments however Council officials said unless you can provide proof you must accept it is just coincedence,when it happened the following years same response.Well if the travellers are blameless can anyone suggest a reason for these happenings?

"Travellers choose to live outside society, rather than contributing to it, so why should we waste money pandering to them?"

Hear, hear, youcantbeserious.

Travellers are lucky, they fit new labours 'protected groups' try living as a white working class Brit on Whitehawk, you will then know all about prejudice, trust me.

I'm a London cabbie right? and I had one of thos "travellers" in the back of my cab once. He sold me some "lucky heather" Lucky? I was in court the next day for common assault on the wife and I got a 400 quid fine and I even backed over my german shepherd what I'd had since he was a pup. Lucky? String the bleeding lot of them up I say.

Charlene wrote:
Travellers are lucky, they fit new labours 'protected groups' try living as a white working class Brit on Whitehawk, you will then know all about prejudice, trust me.

what, you mean a free house, benefits, tax free.... try being a white male who does not live on a council estate, works for a living, SCRAPES the pennies together... THEN you will know.

is this the same chris whitwell the ex assistant director of envoromental services in the city council who told us the the traverlers sit at patcham would end all our probems

£850k...!!! Just for clearing up their rubbish!!! ... wow...those schools that had to merge that caused so much anger could still be two schools...we could get 10 statues on rabbit roundabout...enough to kickstart the Albion Stadium perhaps? Who knows - we'll never know because its spent...gone...more money wasted, cash spent on dealing with so called "minority" groups whilst the majority who are prepared to abide by the rules of society and pay their way do without and slowly become the minority in their own land.

What was it He said..."Those whom the Gods wish to destroy they first make mad..."

Why did we have to find out the figure under a feedom of information act? Why wasn't it freely available already? What else do I need the Freedom Of Information Act to find out about? Maybe the Argus should ask about the number of crimes that can be directly linked to travellers and compare that to the rest of the population as people on here assume that the "travellers" are responsible for crimes lets see if they are - now that would be interesting - but not one I suspect you will ever be allowed to know the answer to, not whilst this Government is in charge!!

Argus can you help and get this information? Do you want to help-I suspect not?

No wrote:

Charlene wrote: Travellers are lucky, they fit new labours 'protected groups' try living as a white working class Brit on Whitehawk, you will then know all about prejudice, trust me.

what, you mean a free house, benefits, tax free.... try being a white male who does not live on a council estate, works for a living, SCRAPES the pennies together... THEN you will know.

I work 40 hour week, pay rent, never claimed a pennie in my life, rent yes (not about to lose it to mortgage arrears and negative equity)and still people like you are prejudice, so my point has been proved, thanks.

I hapen to be one off the travelers you are all winjing about. And NO I dident nick this computor. Us travelers have been piked on and pursocuted for thousnds of years. Not me persunaly but im sick off it anyhow. So **** off you lot.

A dozen or more of them have just broken into Stanmer Park.
Get rid of them before they foul the land where we have arranged, with permission, to hold our festival this weekend.

Well ha ha coz thats how mutch you know. I was in prison but i was innosent and they taurt me how to use on, so there.

D wrote:
Racism has nothing to with it. If these people were being judged because one or two of them gave the rest of them a bad name, that would be racism. Unfortunatly with Travellers, the bad are the many with the good being the exceptional few. If they are travellers they can not work legitimatly, no NI number, no permanent address, no bank account......NO JOB! Ask anyone sleeping rough on the seafront if they can get work. So if they have to pay rent to get a pitch at this new site, where will the money come from??????? All I can say, is if this goes ahead, its time to invest in some good security equiplment and beef up the locks on your doors and windows!

Not sure you have a clue what you are on about you belive what you read. i am a Romani Gypsy i have a NI number i pay tax so do all my family do not class all Gypsies the same,you dont have a clue can you tell me why all UK PRISONS ARE FULL OF YOUR PEOPLE NOT GYPSIES,

Nick wrote:
Tax tax tax tax tax All some people seem to care about is their small change tax. I work full time same as the majority but I couldn't care less about some poxy gypsy camp being built with public funds. If you are that bothered why don't you kick off about the billions wasted in the NHS and on new airfcraft carriers we obviously don't need. Some people on here are seriously dim as exemplified by their racist slants.

THANK YOU MY FREIND, YOU WOULD THINK THAY WOULD RANT AND RAVE ABOUT ALL THESE MP WHO GET ALL THE TAX PAYERS MONEY, YOU ARE RIGT IT IS RACIST.

censored wrote:

Racism has nothing to with it. Unfortunatly with Travellers, the bad are the many with the good being the exceptional few.

Let\'s try that with a little substitution, shall we? Unfortunately, with black people, the bad are the many and the good the exceptional few. Or would you prefer: Unfortunately, with women, the bad are the many and the good the exceptional few. Or maybe you\'ve met every single member of the travelling community in order to find out if the large majority are bad?

AND HOW MANY DO YOU KNOW?????

thers good and bad in evereyone.When we came on the site a nice cownsilor came to see us. I coudnt tell if she was a man or not but she sed that if we have any truble from anywone then to let her know. She was a goode person that cownsilor so i dont judje peeople like yous lot do anyhow.

Sat at youre computor at 5.54am? You shuld get out more and get a life Daniel.

Everyone is complaining that travellers are freeloaders that don't pay their way in society. Easy solution. Make them pay to stay on the organised site. Work out what it costs to run it and keep it clean, and divide by the number of plots. Fix a weekly charge, and make them all pay. We all know they have plenty of money. £100 per week per caravan would seem reasonable. And then seize every vehicle that trespasses on private property.

whogivesa wrote:
Everyone is complaining that travellers are freeloaders that don't pay their way in society. Easy solution. Make them pay to stay on the organised site. Work out what it costs to run it and keep it clean, and divide by the number of plots. Fix a weekly charge, and make them all pay. We all know they have plenty of money. £100 per week per caravan would seem reasonable. And then seize every vehicle that trespasses on private property.

aaahahahhaah you live in a DREAM WORLD! they'll trash it until the council gives up spending money on it, then they get a free site.

and how will you actually get money from these gypos? you can't trace their income because they either steal it or only deal in cash. they are scum and don't deserve any money spent on them. when they start behaving, we'll start respecting.

Well now, it's great to listen to the all the whinging about a gypsy camp in brighton, serves you right. After all, most of you brightonians couldn't give a **** about an incinerator in newhaven if not welcome it. I would definately give that plan two thumbs up ha!

Attached is a extract from a letter/ e-mail I sent to Councillor Theobald
Another issue that I have been asked to raise with you is, that for many years Sheepcote Valley has been used by Travellers as a campsite, either unofficially or illegally or in some cases the council’s officers due to “welfare” problems have placed them on the BMX site. The local population and users of Sheepcote Valley have had to put up with verbal abuse, threats of physical harm, the sight of both male and female Travellers using the footpaths as their Toilet facilities and of course then leaving the detritus of toilet paper and excrement behind for others (mainly Friends of Sheepcote Valley) to clean up, not to mention the usual fly tipping and dumping also carried out by the travellers.



The Council officers have always described these occupations as “temporary” the last group occupying the BMX site for six months, which in my opinion could not be described by anyone as “Temporary”. On enquiring with Councillor Morgan why this area seems to be singled out all the time for occupation by Travellers, Councillor Morgan informed me that the officials of Brighton Council at that time, that it was a democratically taken decision to make the BMX site a “Temporary Tolerated Traveller Site”, this I was informed was carried out after full consultation and discussion with the local people in this area. Having lived here for over twenty years I do not recall any such consultations taking place, so with this in mind I carried out a brief survey and asked the question of some of the residents of Wilson Ave. and Swanborough Drive.



“Have you ever been consulted or taken part in any debate regarding making the BMX site of Sheepcote Valley into a Temporary Tolerated Travellers site, or for that matter any other form of Travellers site.” The answer I received was an emphatic and resounding “NO”



So it would seem that not only was this decision taken on incorrect facts, i.e. that public debate and agreement had taken place, but that the decision was pushed through in a completely undemocratic way. I am informed that you are the person responsible for any possible suspension of the use of the BMX site as an accommodation site for Travellers .I therefore ask on behalf of the local residents of this area that you give this request to suspend the use of the BMX Site as a Temporary Accommodation site for travellers consideration and for it to be put in Public at the next Environment Cabinet Member meeting.
I also find it strange that the councillors have given the Bmx site as one of their chosen options as it does not comply with their own recently agreed Core Strategy document" which clearly states that any Traveller Sites should not be located on or near waste sites or sites of Particular Scientific Interest and as both the Area adjacent to the BMX Site and Sheepcote Valley in general fulfill both of these criteria, as both areas contain flora not found anywhere else in Sussex confirmed by the Councils own " Sheepcote Valley Interim Base-line Vascular Plant Survey 2006", on this basis alone the use by the Brighton-Hove Council of this area for a Travellers Accommodation Site should be withdrawn.

A.Bird

No wrote:

whogivesa wrote: Everyone is complaining that travellers are freeloaders that don't pay their way in society. Easy solution. Make them pay to stay on the organised site. Work out what it costs to run it and keep it clean, and divide by the number of plots. Fix a weekly charge, and make them all pay. We all know they have plenty of money. £100 per week per caravan would seem reasonable. And then seize every vehicle that trespasses on private property.

aaahahahhaah you live in a DREAM WORLD! they'll trash it until the council gives up spending money on it, then they get a free site. and how will you actually get money from these gypos? you can't trace their income because they either steal it or only deal in cash. they are scum and don't deserve any money spent on them. when they start behaving, we'll start respecting.

You take it from them in advance. It's quite simple.
Listen, I don't want them anywhere near me either, I was just putting up a point of view. I bet the council has made absolutely no arrangements to charge them anything. As f###ing, usual - we will have to pay for the scum one way or another.

censored wrote:

Racism has nothing to with it. Unfortunatly with Travellers, the bad are the many with the good being the exceptional few.

Let's try that with a little substitution, shall we? Unfortunately, with black people, the bad are the many and the good the exceptional few. Or would you prefer: Unfortunately, with women, the bad are the many and the good the exceptional few. Or maybe you've met every single member of the travelling community in order to find out if the large majority are bad?

THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE. TRAVELLERS ARE NOT A RACE OF PEOPLE. If they are a race then you could say that about any 'group' of people that decide to do the same thing. Office workers would be the 'office worker race', or people that collect stamps would be the 'stamp collecting race'. Why should this bunch of lazy thieves that decide to pay nothing, mess up every place they stay in, thieve and not work be allowed to call themselves a race.

Trust me, whenever they set up camp near me people always get things stolen. I also remember going to my local at one of these times. The place was packed to the brim with travellers and it was a nightmare. I've never felt so intimidated in a pub before in my life.

But yous is calling all travelers scum. I am a traveler and yous dont know me anyhow. So how can yous call me scum? What have i ever done to deserves it? Its like calling all policemen vioelent thuggs. Some is but it dont mean all is.

Does it mean that all those travellers around the Preston Park area will move to the official site?!!Oh yes I forgot the different types of travellers don't get on. It seems OK for them to operate their own form of racism.

(I put this posting on earlier, but cant find it, so here it is again. It may appear twice therefore.

+++++++++++++++++

A bit of clarification is needed here.

The term Pikey (those often alledged to be Travellers) has become the accepted generic name for the dispicable type of people that are being talked about here. These are groups of people that often come from Southern Ireland in the summer to find work (because everyone over there knows about them and wont have anything to do with them), although many groups actually base themselves on the mainland all year round. There are also groups and familys based here that are of mainland origin, living the same lifestyle. It is these 'pikeys' that have by their own actions gained the horrific reputation we are discussing here, and believe me it is justified. They consider themselves to be outside the law in every area, have no scruples whatsoever, claim to be skilled tradesmen when in fact few if any have any skills whatsoever, other than being expert in bodging everything they do. They are known to pick on elderley and vulnerable people that can be convinced to have 'urgent' repairs done to their perfectly sound roof for £1000 or more. Instilling fear, making threats, and often using violence is all part of their business ethos.

Now this is the important bit. These are not Romany or Gypsy people. The Gypsy and Romany people have a history going back many many years, and while they have their own langauage and customs, they should not in any way be compared to the Pikeys described earlier, who are simply the scum of the earth. It is enivitable that Travelling people, good and bad are all thought of in the same light, because the bulk of these people are Pikeys, where as very few are true Gipsys.

It should be said that in general, Gipsys hate the pikeys and everything they represent (ie driveways that
sink under the weight of anything bigger than a mini, and cause rain water to wreck the foundations of your house etc etc etc etc) and they certainly hate being thought of as pikeys, because they are not.

So heed the warning sent round by the council recently concerning 'cold canvassing rogue traders' and find proper local trademen with offices and a reputation.

NO PROPER TRADESMAN will knock on your door saying 'ello luv we're doing a spot of work for the council and got some tarmac left - do you want yer pathway done nice and cheap'

If anyone even vaguely like that knocks on your door, politely say no, lock the door, and phone the police.

BE WARNED.

nigel wrote:
Does it mean that all those travellers around the Preston Park area will move to the official site?!!Oh yes I forgot the different types of travellers don't get on. It seems OK for them to operate their own form of racism.

Dont talke rubbish. Sinse when has not geting on wit the neaburs bean racism? You sound like an idiot Nigel.

Why dont som of you middel class labouer voting tree hugers come down and talke to us insted of slagging us off on here?

patrick wrote:
Why dont som of you middel class labouer voting tree hugers come down and talke to us insted of slagging us off on here?

You've put more posts on here than anyone. Anyway, you are boring. And you certainly arent a pikey, you are just a wind up. Probably an 18yo stoodent. Go away and have a wash.

"Hop yuorr ard driv krasches"

hahahahaha

Thats only becose the argus deleeted a load off messarges off this morning and left mine on. Your right im not a pikey cos im a traveler now go and get **** Alex befour I hunt you down.

Alex wrote:

patrick wrote: Why dont som of you middel class labouer voting tree hugers come down and talke to us insted of slagging us off on here?

You\'ve put more posts on here than anyone. Anyway, you are boring. And you certainly arent a pikey, you are just a wind up. Probably an 18yo stoodent. Go away and have a wash. \"Hop yuorr ard driv krasches\" hahahahaha

I don't particularly like the way you are bullying this man with your education. If you actually read what he has written (albeit badly) he makes some valid points. Whether or not he is a traveller doesn't necessarily make any difference. The question is, would you actually respond to him in the same way if you believed he was a "pikey" as you call him? And have any of you got the balls to actually do as he suggests and go and meet with them to express your discontentment, or are you all spineless?

Graham wrote:

Alex wrote:

patrick wrote: Why dont som of you middel class labouer voting tree hugers come down and talke to us insted of slagging us off on here?

You\'ve put more posts on here than anyone. Anyway, you are boring. And you certainly arent a pikey, you are just a wind up. Probably an 18yo stoodent. Go away and have a wash. \"Hop yuorr ard driv krasches\" hahahahaha

I don't particularly like the way you are bullying this man with your education. If you actually read what he has written (albeit badly) he makes some valid points. Whether or not he is a traveller doesn't necessarily make any difference. The question is, would you actually respond to him in the same way if you believed he was a "pikey" as you call him? And have any of you got the balls to actually do as he suggests and go and meet with them to express your discontentment, or are you all spineless?

You **** head - we will nominate you to go to the next illegal pikey encampment and explain our feelings and tell them to **** off

What a nit wit you are

Patrick wrote:
Thats only becose the argus deleeted a load off messarges off this morning and left mine on. Your right im not a pikey cos im a traveler now go and get **** Alex befour I hunt you down.

If the coat fits, wear it.

if they are travelers
they don't need a permanent site to wreak their filth & havoc a best fit option would be arrows
directing the b*******s out of Brighton & to anywhere

Here's the latest

A load of pikeys were going round earlier today selling drugs. Hardly suprising because everytime you hear of the police raiding their encampments, they always find drugs

Im not joking

Burn them all, that's what I say

WIll they be selling knock off copies of snatch?

KemptownDaz wrote:
Burn them all, that\'s what I say WIll they be selling knock off copies of snatch?

This person is advocating the burning of gypsies. His ISP should be traced and he should be reported the the proper authorities. How come you people will censor swear words but allow this sort of nazi propaganda on your public forum?